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  #16  
Old 11-06-2008, 04:07 PM
Tech Guy Tech Guy is offline
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I think I"d better clarify this, but we can not download the project into the DL PLC (let me use DL (Direct Logic) PLC instead of AD PLC in my response.) What we can download into the DL PLC are the ladder program and the setup parameters. We can not download the nicknames, rung comments and Data View configuration.

With the CLICK PLC, we can download the entire project including the followings.

- Compiled ladder program
- Source ladder program
- Setup parameters
- Nicknames and address comments
- Rung comments
- Data View configuration

So if you download the entire project into the CLICK PLC, you can retrieve it from the PLC later without any file saved in the disc. However, we understand some customers do not want to download the entire project into the PLC to protect their work. In the case, they can uncheck the 'Save Project to PLC Memory' in the 'Write Project into PLC' dialog. Only the followings are downloaded into the PLC to run the system.

- Compiled ladder program
- Setup parameters

The CLICK PLC is not the same as Direct Logic PLC. So we understand it could be confusing sometimes for the customers who are familiar with the DL PLC. But we believe we improved the project file management in the CLICK PLC. We will add more information to our user documents.

Thank you
ADC support
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2008, 04:53 PM
milldrone milldrone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Guy View Post
I think I"d better clarify this,

With the CLICK PLC, we can download the entire project including the followings.

- Compiled ladder program
- Source ladder program
- Setup parameters
- Nicknames and address comments
- Rung comments
- Data View configuration

So if you download the entire project into the CLICK PLC, you can retrieve it from the PLC later without any file saved in the disc. However, we understand some customers do not want to download the entire project into the PLC to protect their work. In the case, they can uncheck the 'Save Project to PLC Memory' in the 'Write Project into PLC' dialog. Only the followings are downloaded into the PLC to run the system.

- Compiled ladder program
- Setup parameters



Thank you
ADC support
Tech Guy,

Bernie is asking specifically (I think) about Vmem values and retentive bits. You said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Guy View Post
- Data View configuration
Are we talking about the same thing?

In the user manual there is an image depicting the check box you mentioned. And this is also next to the checkbox.

Quote:
Recovery data is written with the project. The project cannot be read from the plc without this option selected.
Does this mean that if you decide to not check this box then no one will be able to retrieve the ladder from the PLC?

Is this spelled out in the manual somewhere? I cannot find it.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2008, 03:54 PM
Tech Guy Tech Guy is offline
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Hello milldrone,

Quote:
Bernie is asking specifically (I think) about Vmem values and retentive bits. You said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Guy
- Data View configuration

Are we talking about the same thing?
Oh, I see. If He is talking about the data in V-memory, the answer is the CLICK project does NOT include the data in the data registers. In stead, we have an option to read data from CLICK memory addresses and save into a CSV file. (Pull dwon menu: PLC > Read Data from PLC) You can download the data from the CSV file to the CLICK PLC later. (Pull dwon menu: PLC > Write Data into PLC) Since the data are saved in the CSV file, you can take a look at them and edit them if you want by using MS Excel.

Quote:
In the user manual there is an image depicting the check box you mentioned. And this is also next to the checkbox.


Quote:
Recovery data is written with the project. The project cannot be read from the plc without this option selected.

Does this mean that if you decide to not check this box then no one will be able to retrieve the ladder from the PLC?
You are correct. If you do not check the check box, no one can retrieve the ladder program from the PLC.

Quote:
Is this spelled out in the manual somewhere? I cannot find it.
It should be covered in the help topic for the Write Project into PLC window (Topic ID: CL090), but I found there was not much info right now. That is our fault. We will add more description in the topic.


Thank you for asking questions about the CLICK PLC. Those questions will help us to improve the user manual and software help file.

Thank you!
ADC support
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2008, 04:29 PM
milldrone milldrone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Guy View Post
If you do not check the check box, no one can retrieve the ladder program from the PLC.
Thank you for clarifying this. I think this needs to be rephrased for clarity in the software window.

Now, Bernie asked about the battery backup. I believe the answer was, it's coming.

In the manual it states
Quote:
Memory
The CLICK CPU modules have a non-volatile FLASH ROM memory area to store the downloaded ladder program and project file. The FLASH ROM memory has a total of 136K words. These are broken down into 8K words for the ladder program and 128K words dedicated for the project file. The FLASH ROM will retain the ladder program even with power removed from the CPU module.
The CLICK CPU modules make use of data registers to store values and conditions that are used during program execution. This data is stored in the SRAM memory. It is volatile memory, but is backed up by a super capacitor. The super capacitor is a special type of capacitor that is designed to provide power to volatile memory like the SRAM when the power to the CPU is
off. However, it will not back up the memory for an extended time. In the case of the CLICK PLC, the super capacitor will back up the SRAM for 10 minutes after the power is shut off. Once the super capacitor is discharged, all data in the SRAM are cleared when the CLICK CPU is powered up the next time.
I think I will wait for the battery backup.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2008, 05:26 PM
Tech Guy Tech Guy is offline
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milldrone,

Thank you for asking the battery backup question. Good news is the description '10 minutes' is not correct. We asked our parent company Koyo to measure the actual memory backup time. The result was much longer than we expected. The super capacitor can keep the data in the SRAM for more than 1 week. We will modify the info in the next revision of the user manual.

Thank you
ADC support
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2008, 05:36 PM
milldrone milldrone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech Guy View Post
The super capacitor can keep the data in the SRAM for more than 1 week.

ADC support
I can live with that!
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  #22  
Old 11-08-2008, 10:09 AM
milldrone milldrone is offline
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"initial value" and "retentive" buttons in the address picker

Tech Guy, or anyone with a click.

I do not have a click to test this out. And the documentation is not clear (to Me). The only thing I can find on this is in the help

Quote:
Establish Initial Values 9 The Address Picker is also used in Edit Mode to set an Initial Value for a memory location.



Note: Initial Values can be Imported (File > Import > Nickname) or Exported (File > Export > Nickname).



Declare Memory Location to be Retentive 10 Declare a Memory Location to be Retentive by clicking in the Retentive Button adjacent to the desired Memory Location(s). The button(s) will change from No to Yes and gray to yellow. Click OK to save your selections and close the dialog.

Retentive Memory Locations maintain their last reading in the event of a loss of power.



Note: The Retentive Setup can be Imported (File > Import > Nickname) or Exported (File > Export > Nickname).

Can someone confirm the behavior of the "initial value" button and the "retentive" buttons in the address picker. I can under stand how it works on "C" bits. Or at least how retentive works on the old DL line. But I do not understand the rules for inputs and the "initial value" and "retentive" buttons.

1. Does the initial value change the status of a input for one scan? Or does the hardware override all.
2. If you have the initial value set to "on" but not retentive for a input. What happens at powerup? And the same test but with the input set as retentive?
3. If the input is set to retentive. And when the PLC was powered down the input was on. Does the input report for one scan that it was on before the power down. If it does this could be a very powerful tool. In my head this is what the help file implies.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:50 PM
Tech Guy Tech Guy is offline
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Hi milldrone,

That is good question. I understand the description in the help topic is not enough. We will revise it inthe next revision.

For now, let me answer your questions.

1. The initial values are set to the memory addresses when the PLC mode is changed from STOP to RUN or the CLICK PLC is powered up. Those memory addresses keep the initial values until they are changed by the ladder program or external devices including HMI and Data View on the CLICK software.

2. When we set the initial value to "on", the memory address is turned on when the PLC is powered up except the input (X) memory addresses. Even if the input (X) memory addresses are set to retentive, the CLICK PLC does not keep the status. The status of the input (X) memory addresses is freshed by the physical input signal status before each program scan.

3. The answer is no. Even if the input was set to retentive and it was on before the power off, the CLICK PLC check the physical input status before starting the program scan. If the physical input status is off, the input status is off from the 1st scan.

We will explain this clearly in the next revision.

ADC support
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:39 PM
milldrone milldrone is offline
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Tech Guy,

Thank you for the info.
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  #25  
Old 11-15-2008, 05:44 PM
bcarlton bcarlton is online now
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Is the 'pointer' type of operation available in the CLICK?

For recipe operations we would have to use a block 'copy' command from a static area to a variable location and also the other way, from a variable location to a fixed location.
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  #26  
Old 11-17-2008, 04:52 PM
milldrone milldrone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarlton View Post
Is the 'pointer' type of operation available in the CLICK?

For recipe operations we would have to use a block 'copy' command from a static area to a variable location and also the other way, from a variable location to a fixed location.
Bernie,

I did find this in the manual, but I'm sure you have already read this .
Quote:
PLC Numbering System (cont’d)
Memory Addresses (cont’d)
Pointer Addressing
The CLICK PLC allows the use of Pointer Addressing for flexibility in programming. The
Copy instruction supports Pointer Addressing
. The Pointer is always assigned as a DS memory
type and is designated as a Pointer by placing the DS memory type in square brackets, such as
[DS1]. Pointer Addressing uses the Pointer's data value to point to a memory location within
the range of one of the eligible memory types. Pointer Addressing can be used with the DS, DD,
DF and DH data register memory types.
Pointer Addressing is also sometimes referred to as Indirect Addressing. One of the many uses
for Pointer Addressing would be to perform lookup in tables. An application example might be
determining the number of gallons in a horizontal tank when the liquid level is known. The
gallons could be determined by a rather complex math formula, but a simpler approach would
be to pre-calculate the number of gallons at several uniform levels, and place these values into
a table of data registers that can be accessed using Pointer Addressing.
Pointer Addressing Explanation
DS1 = 100; data register DS1 is assigned the value of 100.
Then the use of DD[DS1] would be the same as showing DD100.
As the value in DS1 is changed, the result would then point to a different DD data register.
In the example, data register DS1 is called a Pointer. Only a DS memory type can be used as a
pointer. As mentioned before, the use of the [square brackets] around DS1 in the data register
reference DD[DS1] is how the Pointer Addressing is designated.
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  #27  
Old 11-17-2008, 07:09 PM
bcarlton bcarlton is online now
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Nope - missed that. Thanks

On checking further the use of the indirect is limited to the Copy command and then only in the single copy function. The use will ahve to be much expanded to the other copy modes and to other instructions before it is really useful.

Last edited by bcarlton; 11-18-2008 at 11:22 AM.
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  #28  
Old 11-18-2008, 05:27 PM
Tech Guy Tech Guy is offline
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Hello bcarlton,

That is good point! Originally, we were planning to support the pointer addressing in other modes of the Copy instruction and also with other instructions. We just did not have enough time to implement and test them before the launch. Those features will be supported in the future.

Thank you!
ADC support
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  #29  
Old 02-25-2009, 04:46 PM
allukes allukes is offline
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How is the retentative memory feature going to work? Is it going to be a new version of the CPU, a new module or is this going to be implemented through software? I have an upcoming project and thinking about using the CLICK and would need some DS areas to be retentative when the power goes away for more than a week. Of course, I also need to know - when?
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2009, 08:43 AM
Tech Guy Tech Guy is offline
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Hi allukes,

Good news is the DS memory addresses are retentive as default.

To check/change the retentive setup, please open the Address Picker (Pull-down menu: Program > Address Picker). Select the memory address you want to check/change. There is a column 'Retentive'. Please make sure the setup is 'Yes' if you want the memory address to be retentive. You can set the retentive setup for each memory address with the CLICK PLC.

Thank you
Tech Guy
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