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CLICK analog out to VFD

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  • CLICK analog out to VFD

    I have a C0-02DR-D with 4-20 MA input and output. I'm using a sonic transducer to display a distance on my HMI and also using that input to create 2 analog outputs that will eventually go to two VFDs. PowerFlex 70s when I'm done, but right now I'm using a GS that's on my shop workbench. The System Monitor indicates I have an appropriate output but the VFD does not respond. Is my problem with the VFD parameters being wrong or is the CLICK not able to output directly to the VFD?


  • #2
    The spec sheet for that CPU shows that the analog output is passive, meaning it requires a separate power supply. Do you have it wired to one?
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    • #3
      The VFD will require some parameter changes, such as designating Speed Ref to analog in, maybe some scaling, also FWD run digital input.
      ADEN ENGINEERING
      Automation & Electronic Controls

      Design, Build, Repair, Training

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      • #4
        The diagram seems to show a 'sinking' configuration. Is this compatible with the intended drive's input?
        thePLCguy

        Bernie

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        • #5
          I thought I had the external PS done correctly...
          The CLICK is now controlling GS2 although in reverse order of what I want. Speeds up instead of slowing down. Iíll work on that. I can reverse the slope of the input, but dang that makes my HMI distance display wrong.

          IDKN if compatible with AB 70s, I will look at that detail

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          • #6
            If the unit is working in reverse, another tag that has been inverted from your original tag going to the output may help.
            The input tag is say DF101 scaled 0-1000.
            Second tag DF151 = ( 1000 - DF1 ).
            DF1 = 250, DF151 = 750

            If the problem is that the Click C0-02DR-D has sinking 4-20ma outputs where the GS drive needs a sourcing input, maybe the Click C0-12DRE-1-D may work. It has sourcing 4-20 ma outputs.
            The price is a little higher at $194 from $142.

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            • #7
              Thank you. What I have for the GS2 should work. Monday Iíll try it and an AB I have on the shelf.

              Iím trying to measure the depth of very irregularly shaped items on a conveyor(s) and adjust the speeds accordingly. Fun stuff. Normal for me is pump speed and standard On/Off control.

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              • #8
                You use the sonic transducer to send an analog input to plc.
                that value is then send from plc to your hmi via modbus.
                that value is resend (echoed) from plc to each vfd via a dedicated analog output.
                in plus, the vfd should be configured for analog speed control. And enabled to run.
                this should be your basic configuration. The point of start in troubleshooting.

                if you did it differently, please specify. Otherwise, is just a guessing game as to what could go wrong in an unknown hardware setup.
                Last edited by Alexandru; 11-24-2018, 12:07 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tom@Pton View Post
                  Thank you. What I have for the GS2 should work. Monday Iíll try it and an AB I have on the shelf.

                  Iím trying to measure the depth of very irregularly shaped items on a conveyor(s) and adjust the speeds accordingly. Fun stuff. Normal for me is pump speed and standard On/Off control.
                  I have a good customer that sounds like they are doing something similar. They wanted a VFD driven blower to blow the debris/dirt/what have you off of potato conveyors before they potatos were piled in the storages. We are using Banner sensors to measure the depth of potatoes on the conveyor to speed the blower motor up/down. Higher speed=conveyor full of potatoes. Lower speed=minimal potatoes.

                  They said this helped tremendously since a constant speed blower had been shooting potatoes off the conveyor when the conveyors weren't full.

                  The customer loves it. And has swapped all his blowers over to VFD driven with sensors.

                  I'm not sure what you're measuring against, but the sensors work well measuring against potatoes. I was honestly surprised.
                  Last edited by Cow; 11-24-2018, 01:21 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Well fancy seeing you here...

                    We coordinated the conveyors on field Equipment several years ago for spuds to reduce the damage you are talking about. We used CLICKs and a VFD. Manual speed control. Owners were very happy.

                    Now weííre in the loadout stage where the 1st two belts need speed control to increase/decrease according to depth. We put VFDs with manual speed control on those some years ago as well.

                    Why the Banner sensors? Iím using one from AD, and while it appears Iíve got this functioning I certainly will take suggestions. Thinking strongly that I may want to average two sensor readings.
                    Last edited by Tom@Pton; 11-25-2018, 09:24 AM.

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                    • #11
                      I think their spud equipment dealer sold the customer a Banner to try it out. When we got it up and running and tuned with the VFD, he had us get several more Banners for their other blowers.

                      I've never used Banner before, but I did like that we could scale the sensor output by "teaching" it with a few simple button pushes. You can also buy them with a specific distance range too, I believe, if you special order. Other than that, I'm not sure they are any better or worse than something you can buy from AD.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Alexandru View Post
                        You use the sonic transducer to send an analog input to plc.
                        that value is then send from plc to your hmi via modbus.
                        that value is resend (echoed) from plc to each vfd via a dedicated analog output.
                        in plus, the vfd should be configured for analog speed control. And enabled to run.
                        this should be your basic configuration. The point of start in troubleshooting.

                        if you did it differently, please specify. Otherwise, is just a guessing game as to what could go wrong in an unknown hardware setup.
                        Yes, that is pretty much it. I have some delays built into the PLC logic to delay or smooth the response of the VFDs. That and ramp time.

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                        • #13
                          Ok. It seems the vfd does not respond to analog control from plc.
                          Get vfd book and check:
                          1. the hardware setup for analog control. Is possible to ask for a a dry contact to enable motion.
                          2. The parameter setup for analog control. This is usually a one the first parameters
                          3. Make sure the signal input on the vfd accepts the signal from plc: same kind ( analog current or voltage), same range (0-10v, 0-20mA)
                          4. This should not be an issue, however check in the book if the vfd can run without a motor connected to. I havenít encountered when a vfd would not run or fault if not driving a motor, but is worth checking.

                          iff checks well, then connect the vfd to plc and just output some values on analog channel. The vfd should show on digital display the corresponding frequency.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alexandru View Post
                            Ok. It seems the vfd does not respond to analog control from plc.
                            Get vfd book and check:
                            1. the hardware setup for analog control. Is possible to ask for a a dry contact to enable motion.
                            2. The parameter setup for analog control. This is usually a one the first parameters
                            3. Make sure the signal input on the vfd accepts the signal from plc: same kind ( analog current or voltage), same range (0-10v, 0-20mA)
                            4. This should not be an issue, however check in the book if the vfd can run without a motor connected to. I havenít encountered when a vfd would not run or fault if not driving a motor, but is worth checking.

                            iff checks well, then connect the vfd to plc and just output some values on analog channel. The vfd should show on digital display the corresponding frequency.
                            It does work as it sits with one GS2 and one PF4 at the shop. I let it run for two days at the job location with no drives connected just to see how it responded to varying conditions. We are moving towards a few set speeds vs continual adjustment.

                            The PF70s will accept my 4-20.

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