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  • Dura Pulse Momentary Power Loss

    Im having trouble with a drive giving Mom Power loss when backup generator transfer's back to normal power after power failure. I added a 05 plc to reset digital input to remove fault when it see's a power loss but sometime the changover is so quick the scan time does not catch it. So the drive faults out and just sits there. Its in a sewer plant that is not checked but once a day...Called Tech support but no solution.


    Ron

  • #2
    StanElec, we had similar problems with VFDs and switching back to utility power from generator power. This was for a main pumping station pumping sewage to treatment plant. We included time delay to allow VFDs to completing ramp down and stop. Then ramp them up again on the utility power. We have not had one problem since then. I believe the problem had to do with the generator and the utility were out of phase.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by StanElec View Post
      I added a 05 plc to reset digital input to remove fault when it see's a power loss but sometime the changover is so quick the scan time does not catch it.
      Ron,

      It's not clear from your description if you are monitoring the power blink or an output terminal of the drive.

      I'm presuming you are aware of setting #1 for P3.11 through P3.14

      Also what are your settings for P6.12 and P6.13?



      Edit: I see Kprice has responded while I was responding, with a less likely to cause harm solution. I believe it's much better than just reseting when there is a fault.
      Last edited by milldrone; 03-12-2010, 06:02 PM.
      PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE: The fine art of whacking the devil out of an electronic device to get it to work again.

      Vaughn

      Comment


      • #4
        Im monitoring 110 volt power from control transformer. I have come up with a short term fix by doing a rung in the plc to reset the drive if it does not restart after 30 seconds. But If there is a O/L fault or some crictica fault the PLC willl try to reset it over and over and that worrys me....And there is some faults that can be programmed for the output relays but not one for Momentary Power Loss. I don't know if I could use modbus and monitor for a power loss. I don't know if it even there from modbus.

        Ron

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by StanElec View Post
          I don't know if I could use modbus and monitor for a power loss. I don't know if it even there from modbus.

          Ron
          Ron,

          If you have serial comms then just monitor P6.31 through P6.36 and look for #17 and #24
          PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE: The fine art of whacking the devil out of an electronic device to get it to work again.

          Vaughn

          Comment


          • #6
            I will have to get the 485 card I should have ordered a 06.....If they would have added a Momentary power loss selection for the aux relays
            I could have just connected it back to the digtal reset and I would have been in luck.

            Ron

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by StanElec View Post
              I will have to get the 485 card I should have ordered a 06....
              Just a thought or two:

              The analog CLICK $129 has a comm port configurable for RS485.

              You mentioned this was for a remote operation. Would there be a advantage to having some sort of data logging with a time stamp? If you answered yes then just get the 06 it has a real time clock. You could log events as they happened into a fifo including the time stamp.
              PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE: The fine art of whacking the devil out of an electronic device to get it to work again.

              Vaughn

              Comment


              • #8
                No
                I've installed SCADA on most of the system and using wonderware at the office. This is a small sewer plant 20 miles from town. Im going to program the PLC to turn on the other pump if this one fails . Im trying to avoid using AB drive like the other one... the cost is much... I never had this problem with there drive. Just started when I installed the Dura Pulse. Automation Direct says there is a gray area that this could happen when transfering power. I wish they could have given me a option for the aux relay for power loss. The way this site works is the drive runs an Air Pump 24 hours a day. The VFD is used as a speed control to adjust air pressure going to the plant. If the drive stops the little bugs start to die.... It's not checked but once a day.

                Comment


                • #9
                  KPrice,

                  The time delay you are referring to, Is that a time delay after the utility power is up, but you are delaying the transfer switch? Thus allowing the VFD's time to stop?

                  Originally posted by KPrice View Post
                  StanElec, We included time delay to allow VFDs to completing ramp down and stop. Then ramp them up again on the utility power. We have not had one problem since then.
                  PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE: The fine art of whacking the devil out of an electronic device to get it to work again.

                  Vaughn

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    milldrone, they were always having to run to the pump station and reset faults in the A-B VFDs after a power outage. (They also had way too numerous PLC problems to mention, that we also fixed.)

                    On utility power loss, the diesel started, came up to speed, "stabilized", generator contactor closed, PLC ramped VFDs up to speed. All OK. (We put the PLC on a UPS to keep PLC running through this transition.)

                    The faults occurred when the utility power came back, the transfer switch waited a time for the utility to "stabilize", the generator contactor dropped out, and then, almost immediately, the utility contactor closed. THEN the VFD faulted. It was a "critical" fault that required operator reset. We believed the problem had to do with the generator and the utility being out of phase.

                    So yes, as you say, the fix was to delay the closing of the utility contactor upon return of utility power. When the utility power came back, the transfer switch waited a time for the utility to "stabilize", the generator contactor dropped out, time delay occurred, VFDs stopped, time delay timed-out, the utility contactor closed, pumps ramped up to speed.

                    Long answer to a short question. It was a fun project.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      KPrice,

                      Thanks for explanation.

                      I have only worked on only a few automatic transfer switches, and as I recall there was no option to delay the switch. At least on the two I knew about.
                      PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE: The fine art of whacking the devil out of an electronic device to get it to work again.

                      Vaughn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        milldrone, you're welcome.

                        The "standard" auto trans switch did not come with the time delay "timing module". This is why it did not have one, the original contractor just ordered the "standard" trans switch, and before they completed the project, the contractor went "down hill" never to return. We had to order the "timing module" from the trans switch company and install and set it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi All

                          The drive is faulting on return to normal power. But I have no time control the switch back to utility power its almost instance. But I have had problems with these drives on lift stations where the power flickers and the drive faults and has to be reset....There is no plc at small lift stations. You also can cause this fault if you turn off the power for about a second and turn it back on, the drive will go into Mon Power loss. has to be reset manualy. So a phase issue is not the problem on those...

                          Ron

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ron, we had to program the VFD to auto reset alarm on power loss and on low voltage, and program the VFD to auto start on powerup and a true enable signal VFD input. (Without that programming, the VFD had to see an off-to-on enable signal input.) This was all in the VFD programming. The PLC had really nothing to do with resetting the VFD alarms.

                            What VFD alarm/fault are you getting? In our case, the fault was high current. Faults could not be programmed for auto reset, only alarms like power loss or low voltage. Could you be getting high current (or other non-resettable faults)? from spikes? from out-of-phase?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I get monmetary power loss. It has to be reset manualy. It does this even if you turn CB off and back on in about a 1/2 second.

                              Ron

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