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The BRX Document I Wanted to Have..

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  • The BRX Document I Wanted to Have..

    The Document I wish I had Before Using the BRX for the First Time:
    I was Intimidated by the BRX the First time I Opened up the Software.. It had TOO many Options.. and I did not know how to run it.. I’ve been fighting my way through it, and here are my comments..

    The BRX.. It’s a CPU with a LOT of memory, that is already assigned. This Bothered me as I need to be able to Visualize the machine as I writing to it.. But it still has some of the ‘Favorites’.. It has C Mem.. It has V Mem.. It has X Inputs and Y Outputs.. that part is ‘Normal’.. But the Software will not let you ‘Get to it’ in the Normal way..
    I’m accustomed to being able to go to the Documentation Editor and seeing a Table with ALL the Memory laying out and I can put my Nicknames in ALL the memory groups as I choose.. NOT IN THE DO-More/BRX.. The ‘Memory’ ( Or the Documentation of it ) is ‘Collapsed’ when you first open the Editor.. NO V,C,X or Y will show up.. You have to ‘Add’ the memory before you can see it.. Or you need to Assign it as you use it from the Program.. I Don’t work that way.. I need to be able to see the Acreage of Memory I’m working with, so I know where I ‘Am’ in the machine.. Opening up the Editor and seeing NOTHING is very Frustrating for me..
    My Work Around is.. FIRST thing I do when Opening the Documentation Editor, is Expand all of the Areas I’ll be working on.. I’ll ‘Add a Range of Memory’ like.. C0 through C2000.. then V0 through V2000.. Etc.. This way when I go to the Editor to grab a range of memory I want to assign, I can see who my Neighbors are.. when where Conflicts might start happening in the Future..
    That helped remove one Frustration.. Now the next one..
    From what I’ve been able to gather, The DoMore/Brx is a CPU that has Math Processors that are external to it.. So you do not do a Legacy type of Command where you.. ‘On Sp1…Load.. Add.. Store’.. command. you do a BRX /AB Style where you.. ‘On ST1..add your Number to Location of your Choice’.. From my Point of View, the Program is telling the Math Unit what to do, rather than the CPU doing a Load/Store Command.. The Data Manipulation is not done in the CPU, it’s done in the Math Co Processor..

    So far, my understanding of the ‘Logic’ choices are still handled the normal way.. Like, If V45 = 96 then Set C127.. that is all still the same.. It does have Better < = > Rung choices, and the Numbers you can compare to are now not limited to BIN 16 Bit.. You have V Mem ( 16 Bit ), D mem ( 32 Bit ) R Mem ( Real Numbers ) Etc..

    The Analog I/O Ends up in Wx for Analog Inputs, and Wy for Analog Outputs.. That is handy.. Setting up the Analog was a challenge for me.. As the CPU has a Lot of ‘House Keepers’ that are keeping things in order, and that stuff is accessed through the ‘Dashboard’ of the Program ..
    The Dashboard is available from Many locations through the Program Screen.. and Finding it for me has been a challenge.. I just Poke Around till I see something that looks like a System Set up Screen.. then Enter the Data.. You also set up the Motion Control Modules, E-Net Modules, Serial and all the other Goodies .. I Just hunt around till I Find the Picture of the BRX, then place the Curser on the part I want to change, then the proper Data pops up..

    I’m a ‘Bit Manipulator’ type of programmer.. I come from EARLY Processors writing in Op-Code.. I look at things from a Hardware Prospective.. I’m Playing with the ‘MapIO’ routine to do Input and Output Assignments.. It’s a lot handier than writing the Assignments One line at a Time.. But I Do like the old way I did it of Loading C0 through C32, and Storing it in Y0 through Y 32.. I’m Slowly learning the Bit routines, so it might be in there, I just have not found it yet..

    Thanks Bob.. Nice machine.. it’s the GUI I’m having problems learning..

    Cap


  • #2
    It is a bit awkward having to expand the doc editor ranges, but with all the types that exist now (including user types) and all the casting (Y0:UW, D1000:13, etc), all of which can be documented independently, the total possible doc records would be in the brazilians. Believe me, it's worth the doc editor changes just to get user data types, let alone all the other Do-More advantages.

    There are so many ways of moving data, I understand your not finding them all yet. If I understood the last thing you mentioned, it sounds as if you might like MEMCOPY (either C0 to Y0 for 33 elements, or if you actually meant C31/Y31, you could also copy C0:SD to Y0:SD for 1 element). You can also assign C0:SD to Y0:SD in a MATH box. You can also do bulk boolean logic in MATH boxes. I have a MATH box that replaces 32 consecutive rungs with about 6 or 7 booleans each in one single box.

    Do-More still has an accumulator, they just wrote instructions to keep it under the hood (admittedly there were a few weird things you could do the other way you can't now, but it's SUCH a worthwhile trade for all the awesome new stuff!)

    Keep playing with it, you're going to love it! Since Do-More was released in 2012 I think, I haven't used a single DL Classic on a new project. I'm sure you'll feel the same.

    Comment



    • #3
      Oh, meant to say that if you like a pre-populated table to do your docs, I assume DMD will still import docs like DirectSoft would, from a CSV file you can make in your spreadsheet. The only thing where they've always been a bit lacking, and it's only a bit, is that the entire Description is in one cell, and if you want to control the line breaks, which I almost always do, you have to insert a '\n' in the Description. (That's from DirectSoft, and I assume it's the same in DMD, but I've never used that facility in DMD) The AB/Siemens way of allowing a separate spreadsheet column for each Description line works much better for me.

      20 years or so ago, when I was working AB's and not much else, I actually considered the spreadsheet version of the docs as the "official" version and only ever imported into Logix, never did any of the doc work natively.

      Comment



      • #4
        Originally posted by ControlsGuy View Post
        The only thing where they've always been a bit lacking, and it's only a bit, is that the entire Description is in one cell, and if you want to control the line breaks, which I almost always do, you have to insert a '\n' in the Description.
        From an Import standpoint, Do-more supports multi-line Description as separate columns. The Description (starts) in the 4th column. Just add additional columns. This worked out well since the Description is the LAST column in the export (import). Hence,

        X0, LS_XYZZY, wiring info, Descr Line 1, Line 2, Wrap this across multiple lines, Next Line

        There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who know binary, and those who do not.

        Comment



        • #5
          Oh, sweet! Thanks! I'll probably go back to the AB method and maintain the official docs externally and import. That \n thing wasn't terrible, but it was just enough of a hassle to make it not worth trying to use a spreadsheet to create the docs.

          Comment



          • #6
            Originally posted by Cap View Post
            The BRX.. It’s a CPU with a LOT of memory, that is already assigned. This Bothered me as I need to be able to Visualize the machine as I writing to it.. But it still has some of the ‘Favorites’.. It has C Mem.. It has V Mem.. It has X Inputs and Y Outputs.. that part is ‘Normal’.. But the Software will not let you ‘Get to it’ in the Normal way..
            I’m accustomed to being able to go to the Documentation Editor and seeing a Table with ALL the Memory laying out and I can put my Nicknames in ALL the memory groups as I choose.. NOT IN THE DO-More/BRX.. The ‘Memory’ ( Or the Documentation of it ) is ‘Collapsed’ when you first open the Editor.. NO V,C,X or Y will show up.. You have to ‘Add’ the memory before you can see it.. Or you need to Assign it as you use it from the Program.. I Don’t work that way.. I need to be able to see the Acreage of Memory I’m working with, so I know where I ‘Am’ in the machine.. Opening up the Editor and seeing NOTHING is very Frustrating for me..
            My Work Around is.. FIRST thing I do when Opening the Documentation Editor, is Expand all of the Areas I’ll be working on.. I’ll ‘Add a Range of Memory’ like.. C0 through C2000.. then V0 through V2000.. Etc.. This way when I go to the Editor to grab a range of memory I want to assign, I can see who my Neighbors are.. when where Conflicts might start happening in the Future..
            Do-more allows you to document casts. D0:0, D0:3, D0:UB2, etc. There are 46 possible documentation records associated with a single D location, and there can be a lot of D locations. The end result was that to do things the way they had been done before would have resulted in *millions* of records. That simply wasn't manageable. We opted to move more to a tag-based approach, listing only existing records and elements referenced in the program. We knew that many users were used to doing what you do, so we added the facility to pre-populate the table, which it sounds like you found. We will look at making that even easier.

            Originally posted by Cap View Post
            From what I’ve been able to gather, The DoMore/Brx is a CPU that has Math Processors that are external to it.. So you do not do a Legacy type of Command where you.. ‘On Sp1…Load.. Add.. Store’.. command. you do a BRX /AB Style where you.. ‘On ST1..add your Number to Location of your Choice’.. From my Point of View, the Program is telling the Math Unit what to do, rather than the CPU doing a Load/Store Command.. The Data Manipulation is not done in the CPU, it’s done in the Math Co Processor..
            Not exactly. The co-processor is just there to speed things up. Some math runs on the main CPU (in debug mode, all of it does) and some runs in the copro. Under the covers, it is still the same stack based math. The decision to eliminate stack math from the user's experience was simply about bringing the PLC into the modern era. Although the expert may be able to do tricky stuff with the math stack, for the typical user, there is zero benefit to LD A, ADD B, DIV C, OUT D. It may be what you already know, but it isn't intuitive at all. A 2nd grader understands D = (A + B)/C.

            Originally posted by Cap View Post
            The Analog I/O Ends up in Wx for Analog Inputs, and Wy for Analog Outputs.. That is handy.. Setting up the Analog was a challenge for me.. As the CPU has a Lot of ‘House Keepers’ that are keeping things in order, and that stuff is accessed through the ‘Dashboard’ of the Program ..
            The Dashboard is available from Many locations through the Program Screen.. and Finding it for me has been a challenge.. I just Poke Around till I see something that looks like a System Set up Screen.. then Enter the Data.. You also set up the Motion Control Modules, E-Net Modules, Serial and all the other Goodies .. I Just hunt around till I Find the Picture of the BRX, then place the Curser on the part I want to change, then the proper Data pops up..
            As originally conceived, all system setup was done from the System Configuration dialog. For some people that wasn't intuitive, so we added the Dashboard. Pictures are easy...point at the thing you want to set up. There is an icon on the toolbar to bring up the Dashboard.

            Originally posted by Cap View Post
            I’m a ‘Bit Manipulator’ type of programmer.. I come from EARLY Processors writing in Op-Code.. I look at things from a Hardware Prospective.. I’m Playing with the ‘MapIO’ routine to do Input and Output Assignments.. It’s a lot handier than writing the Assignments One line at a Time.. But I Do like the old way I did it of Loading C0 through C32, and Storing it in Y0 through Y 32.. I’m Slowly learning the Bit routines, so it might be in there, I just have not found it yet..
            For block moves, use the COPY instruction. MAPIO is meant to provide a level of indirection between the program and the physical I/O, allowing you to move physical I/O without changing the rest of the program. If you just want to blind copy from C to Y, COPY is easiest.

            Originally posted by Cap View Post
            Thanks Bob.. Nice machine.. it’s the GUI I’m having problems learning..
            We are continually working to make it easier to understand. Do-more has some very big fans who got through the learning curve, and others who couldn't or haven't. We are trying very hard to make it easier for more people to get over that hump. Do-more in general, and BRX in specific, is a very capable machine once you know it, and well worth the effort to learn.


            Comment



            • #7
              Just a few comments. Stick with it and get over the learning curve. There is always a learning curve to any product. Some easier then others. you say about knowing who your neighbors are, just let the mouse float over the element for a second and a pop up shows more info or I like to have the Cross Reference active so when I click on an element I can see what is available. I also started to use the Memory view too. That is helpful to change values or states of bits. You can monitor real time also.
              There is a lot going on in Do-More. Just come on the site and read what others are doing.

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