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A humble request(s) for Do-More God's

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  • A humble request(s) for Do-More God's

    Please.....

    Help me love this thing without being subjected to DIALOG HELL. In other words, DON'T TRY TO SAVE ME FROM MYSELF!

    For starters....

    How about just only two buttons to go on-line with a PLC?

    A simple dialog that says, even if incompatibilities are detected between what is on the PLC vs what is on my PC.

    Button #1. Send My Program (what is in my PC), to the PLC that I am trying to connect to. In other words, Download EVERYTHING. And I mean EVERYTHING.

    YES. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM WANTING TO DO.

    Button #2. Update my program that I am working on at the moment (in essence, discard last 12 hours of my work), with what is currently in the PLC, no matter how worthless it is.

    Again, YES. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM WANTING TO DO.

    Instead of, casting doubt and giving me other choices by asking...

    Are you sure?
    Really?
    Are you Really, Sure?
    Are you Really, Really, Really, Sure?
    You know something terrible might happen right?
    Click the option button if you are OK with offsetting earths magnetic alignment. (OK. That was bit of a stretch)
    Do you have legal representation for what you are wanting to do?
    What would the Kardashians do in this situation?
    Did you drink last night?
    Or, are you still under the influence from two nights ago? (True that)
    I only ask this because this seems like a ridiculous request.

    Again, just allow ME to crash and burn on my own without the DIALOG OVERLOAD.

    literally, I have to DO-MORE (# of steps), to enter in a "SINGLE" line of code.

    And...

    The 2nd reason for my constipation.

    When a contact is deleted, why delete the power rail portion of it and complain about it later? Why Not just delete the contact or the box instruction and leave the power rail in tact? This goes Whaaaaaaaay back to my DL-06 nightmare. But that was Sooooo Loooooooooooong Taaaaaaaaa EEEEEE ummmmmm ago.

    More gripes to come I am sure. But still Loving it, even with all its quirks.

    OK. Next.

    How about a "LIMIT Check" box function?

    Limit Low = 200
    Limit High = 202
    Test DO

    If in-within limit, Turn on C1.

    The inverse of this, would be amazing as well as it does wonders in the hated AB world.

    CHEERS!
    Last edited by skyfox; 04-14-2019, 01:38 AM.


  • #2
    We agree. It has been a recent topic of discussion.

    Two historical values at Host:
    1. Never, ever, take a ‘feature’ away.
    2. Never, ever, do something that might possibly be deemed unsafe or inconvenient without prompting.

    Both are wrong.

    Some stuff should be removed and replaced with better stuff. It may be an inconvenience...at first, but if the new stuff is better, users get past it quickly.

    Prompts eventually get ignored due to answering them over and over. They cease to be effective.

    We can do better.

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    • #3
      Or like some of the syntax check warnings provide a 'don't show this again ever. Just assume I answered yes/no as appropriate' except for the Earth's magnetic alignment.
      thePLCguy

      Bernie

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      • #4
        While not as simple as you are looking for on a limit check (good request BTW), ALDEV and ALHILO might be useful.

        I went from hating the dialog to actually reading it (after the no-time-gotta-get-it-done phase) and decided I am OK with it. There are currently so many things that are going to force a change to program mode to actually load into the PLC that I really need to know about it if a machine is running.

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        • #5
          There are a few things I would think are non-negotiable, but here's the thing, I only know the software packages I've developed professionally. I don't write PLC programs for a living, and Host in general spends very little time studying other packages. That's both good and bad, and I think it shows in both good and bad ways. We'd like to change that.

          Skyfox's comments are timely. Maybe we can use this thread to talk through some this as a community of users. We would welcome the discussion and this will affect our work immediately.

          Let's start with writing the project to the PLC. I would be very uncomfortable writing to the PLC without any form of ack from the user. Does anyone disagree with that? Assuming not, what would you prefer that prompt look like? We use it to tell what's being written and give you more control, but that sounds like a point of contention. We're listening. And if you disagree with the prompt, please explain why. Do other brands write without an ack?

          And does anyone have thoughts on the new connect/link facility new for 2.5? I've heard nothing.
          Last edited by BobO; 04-15-2019, 07:48 AM.

          Comment



          • #6
            Weird...the forum seems be hating my single quotes. They were all there when I typed it in.

            Edit: iPad seems to be using a special character as the single quote, and it seems to be annoying the forum.
            Last edited by BobO; 04-15-2019, 07:49 AM.

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            • #7
              OMG...now they are all back, along with the edits to fix it.

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              • #8
                And comment about the editor...backspace will delete a contact without deleting the wire.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BobO View Post
                  ...
                  And does anyone have thoughts on the new connect/link facility new for 2.5? I’ve heard nothing.
                  Well, while I have installed it, I haven't played with it yet because I just don't feel like configuring all the toolbars and options and such right now. So I have left it untouched, figuring I will probably do the registry export/edit/import thing from 2.3 along with the other file copies.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike Nash View Post

                    Well, while I have installed it, I haven't played with it yet because I just don't feel like configuring all the toolbars and options and such right now. So I have left it untouched, figuring I will probably do the registry export/edit/import thing from 2.3 along with the other file copies.
                    That's kinda embarrassing. We need to do better.

                    Comment



                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BobO View Post

                      Let’s start with writing the project to the PLC. I would be very uncomfortable writing to the PLC without any form of ack from the user. Does anyone disagree with that?
                      Absolutely not. I completely and agree 100%. I probably wasn't clear in my initial request. What I meant was after initially clicking on either "Send to" or "Read from PLC icons", there should just be one follow up dialog explaining the differences and presenting the end user with just two choices. The two choices being... "JUST DO IT" or, "CANCEL AND GET OUT". That is it. No more dialogs or mouse click requirements after that.

                      Originally posted by BobO View Post
                      And comment about the editor...backspace will delete a contact without deleting the wire.
                      Thanks BobO. I did not know that. However, it just still feels somewhat counter intuitive in a windows environment where backspace erases the last character that was before the cursor and delete erases the selected character. Power rail is a must have. So why not keep it in place when the delete button is pressed on a contact or a boxed instruction above it, unless specifically erased by using CNTRL SHIFT?

                      Originally posted by BobO View Post
                      Two historical values at Host:
                      1. Never, ever, take a ‘feature’ away.
                      2. Never, ever, do something that might possibly be deemed unsafe or inconvenient without prompting.
                      Fair enough. But how about providing a configuration option for the designer environment?

                      Press 1 if you need hand holding and legal representation.

                      Press 2 if you are willing to crash and burn and try to get a 2nd mortgage.

                      Simple enough right?

                      Last edited by skyfox; 04-14-2019, 01:40 AM.

                      Comment



                      • #12
                        Originally posted by skyfox View Post
                        How about a "LIMIT Check" box function?
                        Along with this, add the ability to put an expression in the comparative contact. D1 > ( D2 +5 )

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BobO View Post
                          but if the new stuff is better, users get past it quickly.
                          Yoda, could benefit from that statement.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BobO View Post
                            Let’s start with writing the project to the PLC. I would be very uncomfortable writing to the PLC without any form of ack from the user. Does anyone disagree with that?
                            Absolutely not. I definitely DO NOT want writing to PLC, or file for that matter, to be a one-and-done operation. (I realize Skyfox isn't asking for that). AND, if the download requires the PLC to drop to program mode, I want a second, or at least different, ack for that. So, so far as I can recall, about the way it currently works. There are a lot of edits you can do on a running process, especially with Do-More bumpless runtime edits, but there are a lot of times I wouldn't be willing to bump to prog mode. I hate that it always pops up the warning window and I have to close it. I know there is some ignore config for warnings, but I haven't looked at it enough to know if I should turn it on. Maybe a retentive check box in the download ack dialog to ignore warnings for this download. OR, remember the warnings for this specific program that have been overridden before and don't display just those. I also dislike that if I Write to Disk, then Write to PLC, it thinks I need to Write to Disk again. Someone explained this before, but I don't remember the explanation or if anything can be done about it.

                            Do other brands write without an ack?
                            Not that I know of. I hope not.

                            And does anyone have thoughts on the new connect/link facility new for 2.5? I’'ve heard nothing.
                            Like Mike, I've downloaded and installed 2.5, but haven't actually used it yet. Since it's backward compatible with old programs on old firmware (I don't want to upgrade firmware at the moment), I'll probably try it out this week. How do I revert to 2.3 if I don't like something after making edits in 2.5, just do a processor upload? (I am planning to keep a 2.3 version of the program, but if it gets lost, I want to know what plan B is.

                            Here's MY beef: I hate "Edit Mode". Don't know of anyone else who does that. If you're looking at a program, you can edit it. I know we were supposed to get a config option to make the Edit Mode retentive (by project or globally?), or allow you to set it to always come up turned on. Not sure if that hasn't been done or if I just haven't set it, but mine comes up disabled. The other thing about Edit Mode that would need some work to make me happy is that you can't get rid of it entirely at the moment (my preferred option) because some actions have different behavior with Edit Mode on or off. I know you said you have some customers who want it, maybe put in some kind of setting or a separate build of DMD that allows every other function except editing.

                            As far as initial online behavior, I think it's about right. Connect to PLC, if same, go online. If different, put up the difference dialog, with options for Use Disk, Use PLC, and compare differences. The compare differences is quite useful with the option not to show the one shot numbers and stuff that's normally abstracted from the programmers point-of-view (note how my attitude here is different from memory register layout! XD)
                            Last edited by ControlsGuy; 04-14-2019, 03:24 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RogerR View Post
                              Along with this, add the ability to put an expression in the comparative contact. D1 > ( D2 +5 )
                              Yasssssssss! x 1.0e99

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