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  • BobO
    replied
    Originally posted by Todd Dice View Post
    You can write to the processor by clicking once on the "save to processor" icon (there are no warnings of "are you sure?")
    Without any form of ack from the user? I'm not comfortable with that, at least in run mode. Less of a problem in program mode I guess.

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  • BobO
    replied
    Originally posted by ControlsGuy View Post
    I hate that it always pops up the warning window and I have to close it. I know there is some ignore config for warnings, but I haven't looked at it enough to know if I should turn it on. Maybe a retentive check box in the download ack dialog to ignore warnings for this download. OR, remember the warnings for this specific program that have been overridden before and don't display just those.
    You can dismiss warnings for a single block or the entire project or forever...it says that right in the display. Right click on the warning to disposition it.

    Originally posted by ControlsGuy View Post
    I also dislike that if I Write to Disk, then Write to PLC, it thinks I need to Write to Disk again. Someone explained this before, but I don't remember the explanation or if anything can be done about it.
    Yeah...we know. There are a couple of issues. One is the project file name is written to the PLC so that if you just connect to the PLC, we prompt you to automatically open the associated project. When you write to disk and change the the filename, that then needs to be written back to the PLC. The other is instruction IDs and edge bit assignments. Downloading to the PLC forces the reassignment of those in some cases, and that technically changes the program. We know how to make that go away, we just haven't done it yet.

    One thought we've had is to make saving to disk automatic when writing to the PLC, at least optionally. Not sure that would be popular though.

    Originally posted by ControlsGuy View Post
    Here's MY beef: I hate "Edit Mode". Don't know of anyone else who does that. If you're looking at a program, you can edit it. I know we were supposed to get a config option to make the Edit Mode retentive (by project or globally?), or allow you to set it to always come up turned on. Not sure if that hasn't been done or if I just haven't set it, but mine comes up disabled. The other thing about Edit Mode that would need some work to make me happy is that you can't get rid of it entirely at the moment (my preferred option) because some actions have different behavior with Edit Mode on or off. I know you said you have some customers who want it, maybe put in some kind of setting or a separate build of DMD that allows every other function except editing.
    That is definitely going to get changed. Hitting CTRL-E is just instinctive to me I guess, but if it makes us different than everyone else, it is a problem. One advantage is that we hide edit context stuff when you leave edit mode, thus freeing screen real estate, but I guess that isn't worth the frustration it is causing.

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  • BobO
    replied
    Originally posted by RogerR View Post

    Along with this, add the ability to put an expression in the comparative contact. D1 > ( D2 +5 )
    The PLC can do that right now. The only reason we haven't done it is status and display becomes complicated. And how elaborate an expression should be allow? Everyone usually shows the simple cases, but the expression there could technically contain the entire contents of a MATH box. Do you leave it a relational contact where there is a left and right side and an operator, or do you reduce it to a single expression contact that uses math bool operators? A single expression contact could use the entire range of MATH instructions, and whatever was left on the stack would resolve to non-zero = TRUE, zero = FALSE. I think it would be cool as crap...but...the status display would require reading every expression input and evaluating the expression to figure out whether to show the contact as on or off.

    If we didn't show status and compressed the expression display if it were large, it would actually be pretty simple. Feel like the status issue would be a deal breaker though.

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  • BobO
    replied
    Originally posted by skyfox View Post
    Absolutely not. I completely and agree 100%. I probably wasn't clear in my initial request. What I meant was after initially clicking on either "Send to" or "Read from PLC icons", there should just be one follow up dialog explaining the differences and presenting the end user with just two choices. The two choices being... "JUST DO IT" or, "CANCEL AND GET OUT". That is it. No more dialogs or mouse click requirements after that.
    As Mike Nash alluded to, there are contextual reasons why certain things are available or not. There is no single right answer...really ever.
    1. If the SysConfig has been edited, run mode updates are not possible. Writing to the PLC forces a trip to program mode. You probably need to know that.
    2. If the SysConfig hasn't been changed, run mode updates are an option, but you may not want to do that for many good reasons. Probably need to be able to be able to offer guidance on that as well.
    3. Writing the entire retentive memory image to the PLC is a very bad idea in run mode. It may also be a bad idea in program mode and you aren't restoring a system. So should we have a a write program and a write entire project? We had that and people complained. The current dialog was the answer to the disparate write to PLC methods.

    As for mouse clicks...I don't ever use the mouse to write to the PLC. SHIFT-F9, arrow left, spacebar (or ENTER). Takes less than a second.

    And I rarely touch the mouse while editing the program. Someday I need to do a video on ladder editing.
    Last edited by BobO; 04-15-2019, 09:23 AM.

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  • Todd Dice
    replied
    Originally posted by ControlsGuy View Post


    Here's MY beef: I hate "Edit Mode".
    X10!

    It was very frustrating, coming from RSLogix experience, to remember to hit the edit button.

    In P-Suite, when changes are made to rungs, there are two icons; one is for "save to computer" and the other, "save to processor." You can write to the processor by clicking once on the "save to processor" icon (there are no warnings of "are you sure?") However, if one does make changes to code offline in P-Suite, and you attempt to go online to the processor, you will receive a warning that the code does not match the processor, and will ask if you'd like to "upload from processor", or "download from PC."

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  • Mike Nash
    replied
    I just tried another copy of that Win7 VM with pretty much nothing installed - installed v2.5 without dinking with it and the simulator still loses everything when it is powered down.

    Tried adding v2.3 to that one and it has the same issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike Nash
    replied
    So a follow-up on "cloning" the user prefs and such into another machine. Success from Win10 to Win7 after a bunch of futzing around figuring out differences where the files and registry entries are located between the two. It is not real straightforward but doable.

    However, the Win7 was a clean install of DmD, (no previous versions) and DmSim absolutely will not retain it's configuration or program between sessions. I don't know where the equivalent(s) of DmSim.DAT, DmSim.FLASH, and DmSim.STATE are in the newer versions. I tried run as admin and firewall settings without success. It always sees it as a blank PLC and will work for that session only, after it is reloaded. ST134.

    Could it have been me hosing something? Probably...

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  • Mike Nash
    replied
    Just for the record, I did install and manually "import" most all of my customization on my home machine a couple of hours ago.

    DANGER WILL ROBINSON!

    It did involve regedit exporting everything in [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Host Engineering, Inc.\DmDesigner2_3.ini] overwriting selected keys in exported [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Host Engineering, Inc.\DmDesigner2_3.ini], fixing the 2_3 to 2_5, importing 2_5 back in. Also copying the .opt and .ini files from wherever they reside in Win10 from 2.3 to 2.5. (Mumbling run-on intentional to dissuade the dissuadable.)

    No kerblooey (yet).

    This is all on the same machine, no VMs and same registry. It might be possible to do over different machines and even operating systems, but I haven't looked into that. So far all my different installs have small differences as it is tedious to do manually and catch everything (you can't have two different versions DmD open simultaneously in the same "machine" except maybe with VMs.)

    But since I do have VMs available, that may be what I waste a bit of time on this evening.

    The new Link feature looks good with just DMSim. I can connect VPN to real PLCs but can't explore them in the new Link feature. Our VPN now puts us on a different subnet, though I don't know if it would work even if on the same subnet.


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  • ControlsGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by RogerR View Post
    Along with this, add the ability to put an expression in the comparative contact. D1 > ( D2 +5 )
    Yasssssssss! x 1.0e99

    Leave a comment:


  • ControlsGuy
    replied
    Originally posted by BobO View Post
    Letís start with writing the project to the PLC. I would be very uncomfortable writing to the PLC without any form of ack from the user. Does anyone disagree with that?
    Absolutely not. I definitely DO NOT want writing to PLC, or file for that matter, to be a one-and-done operation. (I realize Skyfox isn't asking for that). AND, if the download requires the PLC to drop to program mode, I want a second, or at least different, ack for that. So, so far as I can recall, about the way it currently works. There are a lot of edits you can do on a running process, especially with Do-More bumpless runtime edits, but there are a lot of times I wouldn't be willing to bump to prog mode. I hate that it always pops up the warning window and I have to close it. I know there is some ignore config for warnings, but I haven't looked at it enough to know if I should turn it on. Maybe a retentive check box in the download ack dialog to ignore warnings for this download. OR, remember the warnings for this specific program that have been overridden before and don't display just those. I also dislike that if I Write to Disk, then Write to PLC, it thinks I need to Write to Disk again. Someone explained this before, but I don't remember the explanation or if anything can be done about it.

    Do other brands write without an ack?
    Not that I know of. I hope not.

    And does anyone have thoughts on the new connect/link facility new for 2.5? Ií've heard nothing.
    Like Mike, I've downloaded and installed 2.5, but haven't actually used it yet. Since it's backward compatible with old programs on old firmware (I don't want to upgrade firmware at the moment), I'll probably try it out this week. How do I revert to 2.3 if I don't like something after making edits in 2.5, just do a processor upload? (I am planning to keep a 2.3 version of the program, but if it gets lost, I want to know what plan B is.

    Here's MY beef: I hate "Edit Mode". Don't know of anyone else who does that. If you're looking at a program, you can edit it. I know we were supposed to get a config option to make the Edit Mode retentive (by project or globally?), or allow you to set it to always come up turned on. Not sure if that hasn't been done or if I just haven't set it, but mine comes up disabled. The other thing about Edit Mode that would need some work to make me happy is that you can't get rid of it entirely at the moment (my preferred option) because some actions have different behavior with Edit Mode on or off. I know you said you have some customers who want it, maybe put in some kind of setting or a separate build of DMD that allows every other function except editing.

    As far as initial online behavior, I think it's about right. Connect to PLC, if same, go online. If different, put up the difference dialog, with options for Use Disk, Use PLC, and compare differences. The compare differences is quite useful with the option not to show the one shot numbers and stuff that's normally abstracted from the programmers point-of-view (note how my attitude here is different from memory register layout! XD)
    Last edited by ControlsGuy; 04-14-2019, 03:24 PM.

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  • skyfox
    replied
    Originally posted by BobO View Post
    but if the new stuff is better, users get past it quickly.
    Yoda, could benefit from that statement.

    Leave a comment:


  • RogerR
    replied
    Originally posted by skyfox View Post
    How about a "LIMIT Check" box function?
    Along with this, add the ability to put an expression in the comparative contact. D1 > ( D2 +5 )

    Leave a comment:


  • skyfox
    replied
    Originally posted by BobO View Post

    Letís start with writing the project to the PLC. I would be very uncomfortable writing to the PLC without any form of ack from the user. Does anyone disagree with that?
    Absolutely not. I completely and agree 100%. I probably wasn't clear in my initial request. What I meant was after initially clicking on either "Send to" or "Read from PLC icons", there should just be one follow up dialog explaining the differences and presenting the end user with just two choices. The two choices being... "JUST DO IT" or, "CANCEL AND GET OUT". That is it. No more dialogs or mouse click requirements after that.

    Originally posted by BobO View Post
    And comment about the editor...backspace will delete a contact without deleting the wire.
    Thanks BobO. I did not know that. However, it just still feels somewhat counter intuitive in a windows environment where backspace erases the last character that was before the cursor and delete erases the selected character. Power rail is a must have. So why not keep it in place when the delete button is pressed on a contact or a boxed instruction above it, unless specifically erased by using CNTRL SHIFT?

    Originally posted by BobO View Post
    Two historical values at Host:
    1. Never, ever, take a Ďfeatureí away.
    2. Never, ever, do something that might possibly be deemed unsafe or inconvenient without prompting.
    Fair enough. But how about providing a configuration option for the designer environment?

    Press 1 if you need hand holding and legal representation.

    Press 2 if you are willing to crash and burn and try to get a 2nd mortgage.

    Simple enough right?

    Last edited by skyfox; 04-14-2019, 01:40 AM.

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  • BobO
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike Nash View Post

    Well, while I have installed it, I haven't played with it yet because I just don't feel like configuring all the toolbars and options and such right now. So I have left it untouched, figuring I will probably do the registry export/edit/import thing from 2.3 along with the other file copies.
    That's kinda embarrassing. We need to do better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike Nash
    replied
    Originally posted by BobO View Post
    ...
    And does anyone have thoughts on the new connect/link facility new for 2.5? Iíve heard nothing.
    Well, while I have installed it, I haven't played with it yet because I just don't feel like configuring all the toolbars and options and such right now. So I have left it untouched, figuring I will probably do the registry export/edit/import thing from 2.3 along with the other file copies.

    Leave a comment:

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