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Faster than 1 second graphing/logging of data

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  • Faster than 1 second graphing/logging of data

    As the title says, is faster than 1 second graphing/logging of data possible with AD hardware?

    I have deployed a few Cmore's and see no possible way. I know every productivity PLC can supply the data faster than 1s. I have an application requiring 100-200ms data logging resolution and would like to be able to display this data on a Cmore. The data log has to be a transportable file of some sort, nothing fancy.

    My problem is the logging capability of the Cmore. max file count, size limitations and the 1 second logging are a no go.

    At this point my only option is to use a productivity 2000 or 3000 with Kepserver to get the data via OPC and use a PC solution. However for a small 8-10 channel data acquisition this is equivalent to bringing an nuclear weapon to a knife fight.

    My use case is trying to develop a "signature monitor" for a process. It is a fancy etch-a-sketch graph with max/min criteria to monitor the process. Think high speed digital chart recorder with alarm values. Pre-made solutions exist that cost more than a nice new car. Due to their price point and closed sourced PC based software I wanted to choose a PLC solution for flexibility.

    Any ideas or comments?

  • #2
    Most scada systems will not log faster than once a second either. I can't think of an HMI faster than 500ms.
    Maybe Data logger suite?


    • #3
      BRX can do it using the SD card. Using the RAM drive and transferring after the fact to some other media you can extremely fast.

      It's not going to get to any HMI that fast. You have too much processing and time on wire. Only thing you can do is log and transfer after the fact or possibly in bursts.
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      • #4
        +1 Do-More PE
        How about using the Array function of the productivity series and create the logged block of data? You can then display this on the C-More.
        This would be similar to the following post:

        If your data is constant, then I would look at AdvancedHMI.
        The communication rate has a default of 500 msec, but this will allow you to change it. I have used it down to 100 msec.

        I hope this helps you out.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Garry View Post
          +1 Do-More PE
          How about using the Array function of the productivity series and create the logged block of data? You can then display this on the C-More.
          I hope this helps you out.
          I tried this idea years ago (V1.4.1.1) Link to post
          I could not reproduce a consistent graph - even when using the same dataset. I did have a large amount of data that I tried to graph.
          Sometimes, I got great capacitor charge curves for voltage and current. Most of the time, no. (If I can locate some pics, I'll post them)
          -- 2 pens, one for voltage, one for current. ~ 9600 samples per pen over 4 minutes (at 4 samples per second)
          -- I saved the samples during the run and only pumped the data to the screen if desired -- I tried various intervals. I really did not care how long it took. I had minutes between runs.
          I cannot say that somewhat high traffic over ethernet could have caused data to be delayed/missed.
          (there are 2 robots, ~11 PLCs and ~5 HMIs on this network)

          I have not revisited this.
          Maybe, I should.

          [EDIT] Add images
          The attached images show what I wanted (EXCEL graph) and what I usually got (HMI Graph)
          These graphs are NOT using the same data, but the same type of sample set.
          The HMI image is from 2012, the excel graph data is from 2013
          Attached Files
          Last edited by kewakl; 03-10-2020, 10:57 AM.


          • #6

            Thank you for the words of wisdom and experience. I have attached a picture of what I am trying to achieve (times 8 channels). I need to monitor a process that can last from 1-5 minutes. The application is a process signature monitor. You insert a part, run a perfect run, teach the PLC/DAQ what a good part is, use math to apply desired +/- tolerances. When running future parts, if the real-time data falls outside the max/min it is a process fault. I have thought about logging in the PLC memory, then dumping into a Cmore. Not sure if that is possible, it is with AB hardware. Due to low power HMI CPU's, this method of dumping a historical capture onto the HMI for display can be problematic.

            I have accomplished this previously using PC based DAQ and custom PC based HMI. This was a closed source package and cost roughly $30K in DAQ+HMI+PC hardware. Instruments were extra. Fully deployed, programmed, configured, calibrated puts me over $50K prior to instrument cost. This was back in the AB SLC 500 days when PLC memory was non-existent. With the AD Productivity 2000/3000 series it seems I could go down the PC based route using Kepware/OPC logging, which due to sample rate makes sense. The issue is the front end/PC Based HMI as it will be expensive. Looking at Ignition (about fell out of my chair $$$, but amazing), and other free/low cost PC based HMI software and I am not really impressed as they are dated, clunky or just do not work. I am trying to do this for less than the closed source $50K cost, yet am smart enough to realize it will cost north of $10K in hardware alone. There just has to be a better way on the hardware side in order to use open source PLC/HMI code. I do not care about front end development time/cost as I know it is 100% custom, I accept that. My issue is the upfront hardware cost for the DAQ or PLC and HMI Software side. Top of the line, latest AB HMI's cannot do better than AD on sample rate and file transfers. For 6X the AD price I would expect more, hence why I love AD over AB. AD just works, does what it is supposed to do without issue. My use case is just too much for either. It appears to lock me into PC based HMI front end or PC based DAQ+HMI.

            On attached graph, blue is real time data, upper/lower red is process fault lines. If real-time crosses either the process is faulted/stopped. Obviously the decision to fault/accept is PLC or logic based from the PLC/DAQ. The display would display the data as shown below. It is a process signature monitor, a perfect part follows the same line, over, and over, etc... I would log each run to either CSV for post processing to push to SQL database later. 100% part/process logging for compliance. each cycle would have a file. In an 8 hour day this adds up very quickly. My issue is a traditional HMI could never deal with that much data and has to offload/push to a server rather quickly. I am shooting for no slower than 100ms samples. In a perfect world I would do 10ms samples, average 10 samples to form a 100ms data point, display that data point on the HMI.

            My Etch-a-Sketch
            Last edited by kthayer; 03-10-2020, 05:36 PM.